Please tell me you were all close to a heart attack at the end of the first chapter. If not, you may be disowned.
I had a heart attack at the beginning, throughout, and at the end. I didn’t think that that scene was going to be foreshadowing for many other scenes of male genitalia being removed. Yikes!
Yes! The removal of male genitalia seemed to almost be a theme in this book, up to and including the plague where men’s penises literally rotted off.
I remember where I was when I read that last sentence and I remember the exact words that I spoke aloud, to myself: “Holy shit!”
I loved that Chloe came back in the end. I wanted more of that story!
I gasped loudly at the end of that first chapter and uttered the same words as Jen! I loved this entire novel, and if it had been 100-200 pages longer, I would have happily devoured it. I did.not.want the book to end…but Chloe returning at the end was a nice consolation.
I was so happy to see her again. I think I would have been really let down if we didn’t at least get some peek back into her life.
That’s actually something I loved about this book—the way it can function as both short stories and a novel, but I think that’s probably a downside for some people. How did the format feel for you?
LOVE my short stories and I think it worked nicely in this book. The interconnected stories were annoying at first because of the number of characters, but then it became a challenge and mystery for me. I ended up with three pages of notes and an attempt at a family tree to keep it all straight. I feel, though, this will be a huge turn-off for some people.
I love short stories, too—but have found recently that novels that try to pose as short stories can often be a non-starter for me. I felt that each chapter was cohesive enough that it didn’t necessarily feel like a collection of short stories.
I read an advanced copy that didn’t have a family tree. Even though I loved the stories I think I would have liked it so much more if I had been able to reference that tree. When I read short stories I need them to be connected. The Shore has those connected stories but they weren’t clear enough, for me.
I wanted a family tree to look back on at the end, but I kind of liked the puzzle of figuring everything out. I guess I’m a bit of a glutton for punishment, but I love the work of piecing things together when I’m reading (as long as it’s not nearly impossible).
I’m sad that the finished copy has family trees in it, honestly, I really enjoyed sketching out my own. I started on my iPad and had to finish in an old school composition book.
Let’s talk the final chapter. Did it work? Was it too out there?
Way out there at first. I finished it late in the evening, but after I woke up and thought about it more, I was impressed. I ended up messaging Shannon to review a few points like: did they basically start over like cavemen after the apocalypse? The monosyllabic names? Simian means “higher primate”.
I loved the final chapter, of course I loved it once it started going all apocalyptic. What I might have prefered to see as a feminist statement from Sara Taylor would have been a matriarchal society. Clearly Sally was the first Keeper, why didn’t she set up a society to run with women in power? Even in that last chapter where the daughters are revered, they are still treated mostly as possessions. Is it about the inevitable cycle of the human race? As Calley tells Medora, in so many words, the man will always win?
I do wonder if Taylor is making a statement there, especially in comparing the type of men on the island. I have no idea if this is right, but I’m just throwing it out there. I’ve read this chapter a few times because it’s my favorite puzzle piece and keep trying to fit things together. Quite a bit of time is spent comparing the Halfmen (which include the individual Keepers) to the Bigmen. “Things were, once, being Bigman was cushiony work, and that’s how we reckon the mainland went all to hell’n’flinders.” In comparison, the Halfmen use their heads because their bodies don’t work properly. It seems as though, for the first time in the book, we’re shown more thoughtful and compassionate men.
To demonstrate that, Taylor shows Simian, who is dishonest with another man. He gets Jillet’s father drunk (on alcohol that’s a callback from the Wake chapter) in order to get his permission and ends up earning Jillet’s trust and love without needing to overpower, assault or lie to her.
Ohhhhh… Mind. Blown.
I love your theory, Shannon, because it’s less depressing than my take. Yes, Simian means “higher primate” but that includes humans; I felt Taylor was saying we humans are what we are and it’s next to impossible to escape that. Everything wrong with humanity before the plague is part of our nature, now it’s simply starting over, and there’s nothing we can really do about that. Maybe this ties in with April’s question about why didn’t things start over with a matriarchal society? Because it can’t. Men are the way they are, women are the way they are. So I fall in line with a theory April mentioned above: This is the natural and inevitable cycle of humanity.
And what about the disease? Being sex related and the women being the carriers… is it payback from the women for years of being raped, abused and treated like possessions?
Payback is exactly what came to my mind, too. Poetic justice.
Although I know there’s little evidence for it in the book, I like to think that Sally somehow engineered the plague. (I mean, she could control the weather, why not a plague?) I do think that at least symbolically the plague was intended to be some sort of payback for generations of women being mistreated.
Agreed. I got the sense from Sally’s field guide planning that she at least had some deep insight into the plague’s coming. And maybe if she engineered the plague, it was meant to wipe out the undesirable men (eventually leading to the Halfmen we see in the final chapter)?
Also when Chloe visits Aunt Sally (who isn’t really her aunt) she mentioned “when a population gets too numerous for the environment, something happens to reduce it.” It felt like she meant too numerous with bad men and even suggested that Chloe return with Seth because they needed genetic variety or good male genes from outside the island.
What about Tamara, who… [checks her notes] I have as the granddaughter of Pierce and Becky Lumsden (assuming Pierce ever got off his ass and married Becky). What did her desperate longing for a child say? And the lengths she was willing to go to have it by a specific man? Was the fact that it was born so very deformed an overdosage of the fertility drugs? Is that one of the reasons we saw so many Halfmen in the final chapter?
I don’t think it was the fertility drugs at all. She took what seemed like a normal dose of Clomid, which is very safe, and a double dose of Heparin. Heparin doesn’t cross the placenta and I don’t think it’s considered a “fertility drug,” it just helps support pregnancies in women who are prone to blood clotting issues. She says “the pills make her nauseous” but that’s easily explained by the iron supplements.
I was definitely thinking along April’s lines, with the children being born that way because of the drugs and the last chapter a result of that. But maybe the abnormalities were some effect of the plague? If it wasn’t for Tamara’s determination to have a baby with Scott, you could assume her need for a child was just because of the apocalypse, but…why Scott? I’m still puzzling this one out, too.
Maybe because Scott was a continuation of the crappiness we saw in men within this novel? Maybe Tamara’s offspring got into the gene pool and undid Sally’s intentions for a matriarchal society?
Definitely a possibility. I hope someone can help us figure that one out. Going back to Sally and her intentions, I wondered a bit about Tamara being an asymptomatic carrier. Do you think that was true for all Lumsden women or that maybe Sally had given Tamara some sort of protection?
It just occurred to me that when we see the inside of Sally’s house we see magazines and books on DNA, among other things. She also has twins that are insinuated to have been born from an in vitro procedure, perhaps giving Sally the opportunity to ‘tweak’ the genes to give her offspring some sort of immunity. Maybe I’m getting way out there now…
Nope, I’m rolling right along on that road with you. With its bits of magic, this book just made me so happy to see Southern Gothic-style fiction back in the hands of a woman. I’ve been absolutely desperate for it.
For some reason I tend to avoid Southern Gothic and this is the second book this year to make me rethink that (the other being Thomas Pierce’s Hall of Small Mammals). Both books have a bit of magical realism. Is that typical for this style? If so, I sense an exciting shift in what I think I like to read!
I don’t think I’ve read many Southern Gothic-style novels. What would you recommend?
Magical realism is definitely typical and Flannery O’Connor would be my go-to. Read all the Southern Gothic! I just feel like there hasn’t been a woman writing in this space in a long time and it’s so nice to see, especially with the feminist elements.
I’m such a fan of this gritty, gothic style. It’s so different from my very un-gritty, un-gothic, northern life.
Read our Reviews:
The Daily Dosage | Lovely Bookshelf | River City Reading | The Steadfast Reader
There’s a ton to dig into here, readers! Tell us how you felt about the infamous “future chapters”. What theories do you have about the book? How did you feel about the different perspectives (we see first, second and third)? Do you think the cover is a fair representation of the novel?
June 18, 2015 at 8:34 am
I’ve been working on my review of The Shore this week, and found the UK cover while I was looking for images. It’s GORGEOUS – I love the shells, but I think that the US cover more accurately conveys the book.
Interesting thoughts about Tamara – I had assumed that her child was deformed because of the Plague, but the fertility drug theory is interesting too.
I think the biggest unanswered question for me is – What happened to Sally? What was her future that we didn’t get to see? I would have happily read hundreds of pages more in this one. MOAR MOAR MOAR!
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June 18, 2015 at 1:22 pm
I got the sense that Sally was the first Keeper in the re-established society after the plague – there’s mention of a woman healer who brings the stories from before (and we know she was preparing for a similar situation).
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June 18, 2015 at 4:32 pm
Ah yes, I remember those hints now. I think I initially wanted a full chapter for her towards the end, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that might not have worked. The last chapter was sudden, even after the hints in the second to last chapter – but it worked for me. It would have been an entirely different novel if she spent as much time on the build up to the last chapter as she did with the history, and as much as I would love to have read more, I don’t know if it would have been as powerful.
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June 18, 2015 at 8:41 am
I’ll start by saying, I really really wish the chapters had been in date order. I think, as an audio listener, it would have helped me follow the trail of characters and events more smoothly. Otherwise, I loved the interconnectedness and the sense of surprise as things unfolded and clicked together – sometimes hundreds of years later, or earlier, based on the placement of the stories : )
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June 18, 2015 at 8:46 am
I was wondering about that while I was reading, would the book be different if it was in chronological order? What was the reason for jumping around in time? Also these connected shorts were strongly linked by characters, as opposed to some that are linked through an object or theme, so why short stories? there seemed to be enough story to work it into an actual novel? I wasn’t disappointed but it was just a thought that I kept thinking throughout the book.
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June 18, 2015 at 9:26 am
I didn’t even think of that but it would have made my life a little easier. Since I didn’t have the tree I was lost much of the time. Chronological order may have helped. Hmmm.
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June 18, 2015 at 9:55 am
I didn’t even know there was a family tree until you mentioned it here. Bummer. I feel like I missed out a bit listening to it on audio now : (
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June 18, 2015 at 10:23 am
Yeah, I feel like I missed a layer because I didn’t have that tree. I wouldn’t say I was lost, exactly. But I think I would have liked the book even more if I had been able to see those connections.
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June 18, 2015 at 7:01 pm
I liked piecing it together myself QUITE a bit, but certainly wouldn’t have gone to all the work if I’d the the family tree from the get go. I have since received a finished copy, and it was fun to compare my scribbles and crooked lines to the completed tree in the final version. I didn’t do too badly!
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June 18, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Yeah, I can’t imagine doing this one on audio. 🙂
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June 18, 2015 at 6:59 pm
I can’t even imagine having listened to this on audio! I enjoyed copious note taking throughout, so I applaud your ability to get anything out of it from the audio format! 🙂
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June 18, 2015 at 9:07 am
I have many thoughts. Much to your discussion about short stories, I’m never really excited when I find out what I thought was a novel isn’t. Or when an author has a new book and then you find out its stories. Everyone loves the linked stories but sometimes I think I’d rather just have ‘short’ stories. I grow attached to certain characters in linked stories, and I just want it to be all about them. While I enjoyed this collection I found myself taken out of the story by the writing. I know that doesn’t really make sense, but it made me think of a ‘Books on the Nightstand’ podcast from a while ago where they discussed beautiful prose and if it can it bring you away from the book. And in this case, it was so wonderfully written, I could picture the author sitting and trying to write the perfect sentence.
For what it’s worth, I assumed Tamara’s baby was deformed due to the plague. She was a carrier. Her one halfman baby, due to a drug overdose, would not have propagated so many others that far into the future. I would have gone bonkers without the family tree, I must have checked it a hundred times.
I don’t want to even discuss the last chapter. Ugh, I hate when the language becomes like that in the future. Really? We are going to forget words and how to talk? I understand there was a plague and most people were gone but the ones left forgot language? At least in Station Eleven they still had Shakespeare! So your analysis of that whole chapter might be great but I resented having to read it. I kept wishing it ended with Chloe’s chapter. It would have been a nice symmetry, it opened with her, and closed with her.
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June 18, 2015 at 9:25 am
I’ve thought the language thing a little, too, after seeing it mentioned by someone else. What if we look at it as language changing instead of forgetting how to talk? When we read Beowulf or even Shakespeare, it looks completely different from the English we read today – if it wasn’t something we had seen before, we could say the same thing about it (that it looks like someone forgot how to talk). The difference here is that the last chapter is only 150 years in the future, so it’s not quite enough time to evolve that much…but in such an isolated area, with a major disaster…who knows? I guess that’s why it didn’t bother me as much.
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June 18, 2015 at 10:00 am
So many of my new favorite post apoc and pandy fiction messed with language. Both THE ONLY ONES and THE COUNTRY OF ICE CREAM STAR have a morphed form of English and I actually really dig it. Everything evolves, even language, as you noted, Shannon. The future world depicted here fell right in line – language wise – with what the authors of those two books envisioned so it was sort of comfortable for me.
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June 18, 2015 at 11:36 am
Oh, I JUST put The Only Ones on hold at the library yesterday!
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June 18, 2015 at 9:25 am
I know what you’re saying about picturing the author trying to write the perfect sentence. There are times when books don’t read as effortless and it sounds like that happened to you here.
Ha, they did still have Shakespeare in Station Eleven, good point! I hate to think that humans will forget how to speak in the future but I suppose the possibility is there.
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June 18, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Susan, I’m with you. I went into this one not realizing it was interconnected short stories (I’m actually kind of annoyed the cover says “a novel” because it’s not really and creates a certain set of expectations that weren’t met) and that there were so many interrelated and recurring characters. I was in love with Chapter 1, then annoyed when I got to Chapter 3 because it had just started to sink in that I should be taking notes, and then in love again once I got the pattern & note taking down…all the way through the second to last chapter. I just absolutely loved it and think it should have ended there.
I could not get a handle on the final chapter…the language completely turned me off and it felt so disjointed from the rest of the book. It was late at night when I read it, so that could have something to do with my brain just not looking for or finding all these allegories or hidden meanings. I’ve considered trying to re-read it, but keep putting it off. At this point, I’d kind of rather just pretend it ended with the second to last chapter 🙂 I did, however, love the earlier post-apoclyptic chapter (and, I thought the deformities were a combination of the plague and inbreeding…but I love hearing all these different theories on that!).
I gave it 4 stars on Goodreads, but it would have been 5 with well set expectations and minus the final chapter.
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June 18, 2015 at 4:36 pm
I wasn’t super crazy about the language here myself, but I agree with TNBBC below that it can work when it jives well with the world, à la A Clockwork Orange (I loved piecing together the nadsat in that one!). I didn’t get enough of a sense of this new future to really appreciate Taylor’s language here.
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June 18, 2015 at 9:53 am
Oh you guys, I didn’t love this one. I tried, I really did—read a solid 100 pages… then just couldn’t anymore. The writing was nice enough (although sometimes a whole paragraph would be one single sentence, which I’d have to read over to make sure I got it all). I did end up skimming and skipping forward and reading some of the last couple chapters, knowing it would go into the future (thanks to the contents page at the beginning) and wanted to see how the author would handle that. But I didn’t go into depth in the last two thirds of the book. Just at this moment, I couldn’t deal with so many characters (on the other hand I really loved One Hundred Years of Solitude). I had one finger placeholding the family tree page while I was reading because I knew every page or so I’d be referring to it, which kind of felt like a chore. I was let down when I realized I was reading short stories, however they may have been connected, because I guess that just wasn’t what I was expecting going in. I may have enjoyed this more if I the chapters had been chronological, and if I had known it was short stories. And I agree with Susan W on the last chapter, the bastardized language of this future didn’t work for me.
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June 18, 2015 at 4:54 pm
I can definitely see how it would be jarring if you didn’t anticipate the structure or know what you were getting into, really…especially because it is being billed as a novel, when it’s not quite.
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June 18, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Yeah. It could be me and my timing, too. I mentioned it on my blog (where you commented!) that I started reading this on a really busy weekend and didn’t have time to get properly sucked in. Also, I’m thinking that maybe I need a non-fiction right now—I’ve read a lot of current fiction and have been LOVING the audio of Just Mercy (almost done!) so maybe I need a break from fiction at the moment. I totally see why people love this one and find it amazing, maybe I would too if I try it again at a different time because usually this sort of fiction would be right up my alley (except the short story part, which I’m starting to get into more).
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June 19, 2015 at 3:03 pm
Unrelated, but Just Mercy is fantastic! I’m so glad you’re enjoying it.
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June 18, 2015 at 4:45 pm
Does someone want to talk to me about how “Skirt” is one of the most jarring rape scenes I’ve ever read? I wouldn’t even say it’s the most graphic I’ve ever encountered, but something about it… I really had to put the book down and walk away for a while. It definitely didn’t wreck my reading experience and I saw it coming from a mile away, but still… when it arrived, it was a lot to take.
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June 18, 2015 at 4:52 pm
This was actually something we started to discuss at the end, but ended up cutting it because this was so long – it kind of ties into the question we left about the different perspectives (how we see first, second, and third in various stories). I feel like something about the perspective is what makes it so awful. Being in the mind of a person *contemplating* rape…it was just…ugh.
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June 18, 2015 at 6:56 pm
What really got me too, was that she still married the guy! I think, like April pointed out, this is unfortunately an uncomfortably accurate depiction of what many rapes are like… which was why it was so horrible to read about.
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June 19, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Yes, this too. I want to believe that maybe, had she not gotten pregnant, she wouldn’t have, but you really never know. 😦
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June 18, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Agreed, there was something wholly and terribly disturbing about it. Like you said, I’ve read more graphic rape scenes – but there was something really disturbing about this one. I think that like Shannon says maybe it’s partially perspective – but I think that it’s also partially because it’s such a REAL depiction on how rape happens. Stranger danger is not our BIG problem when it comes to rape – people are more often than not raped by people they know – which is exactly what happened here, not to mention that the bystander effect is happening here with… the third kid, I can’t remember his name – who doesn’t rape her, but he doesn’t help her, nor does he tell anyone.
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June 18, 2015 at 5:00 pm
Yeah, I kept hoping he’d finally call a stop to it, unrealistic as that is. It even seems like he was going to go through with it until Ellie asks him to stop. I felt so vindicated that he eventually had to face Chloe in the end and tell her the truth. It doesn’t erase the horror of what happened, but he has to drag it out in the open and face the fact that he did nothing.
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June 22, 2015 at 11:46 am
Yes!! I was so glad that he had to own up to what he did in a small way. That scene was brutal.
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September 7, 2015 at 8:57 pm
I can attest to the fact that the descriptions of the places in The Shore are accurate. We have a home in Accomack County that we visit quite often in the summer. I was delighted that the story opens at Matthews Store. I have shopped there many times. I have never driven down the road to the farm, yet. As soon as I get back down there I will be sure to explore.
The end was especially realistic to me. My friends always say that if we ever have to ‘bug-out’ of town, we will be safe and eat well on The Shore!
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November 16, 2015 at 10:40 pm
Love this discussion! I just finished this book today and greatly enjoyed it. However, I can’t figure out where the story about the boy helping to distill cider during prohibition fits in with the rest of the family. Was anyone in that story part of the other two main families?
I also found the author’s use of drugs interesting. The women use herbs and medicines to avoid pregnancy, which would tie them to men, the men use drugs in ways that ultimately promote violence against women.
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November 16, 2015 at 11:20 pm
I read an ARC without a family tree, so I’m not sure about the connection to the families, but it seems like there’s a connection with the cider still in that chapter and the alcohol in the final chapter. I’m definitely curious about the family link, though!
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