I was so glad that we decided to dig into this one. The first time I read it I gobbled it up much too fast. It made the list of my favorite books last year and re-reading it reminded me of why.
I fell hard for this when I read it early last year and couldn’t wait to do a re-read before we discussed it. I was actually surprised by how much more linear and straightforward it felt the second time through. It was much easier for me to pick out what was a thought, what was a fact from her editing and what was a conversation, but I still loved the blend of everything.
I felt like I might get more out of this book with a second reading. The question is: Do I want to? I’m thankful for this conversation; that’s probably enough.
I didn’t get to a re-read but am pretty certain my response would still be a deeply instinctive need to hug this woman and buy her a martini while we commiserate about life.
“How has she become one of those people who wears yoga pants all day? She used to make fun of those people. With their happiness maps and their gratitude journals and their bags made out of recycled tire treads. But now it seems possible that the truth about getting older is that there are fewer and fewer things to make fun of until finally there is nothing you are sure you will never be.”
Nah, I’d rather buy myself a second martini. I just didn’t care enough about her to use my booze money on her. I did love all the takeaway quotes; lots to think about there. But the characters didn’t feel tangible to me. I wanted to feel what the character’s own experience was like; instead, I felt like I was reading the author’s musings. That was a huge disconnect for me.
With this book, I was actually okay with the characters not feeling completely drawn…I thought it almost made them more relatable, in a strange way. Without names or details I found it easier to connect dots.
The sketchy intangibles were what make them so real to me! And damn, Monika, you wouldn’t even drop a dime on a drink for this poor woman whose facing sticking with the reality of parenting and marriage against the euphoria of the dream?!
I don’t spend money on imaginary friends. It’s hard for me to believe someone would completely buy into such an idealistic daydream, not in this day and age. Maybe I’m too cynical.
This woman felt more like a personification of our subconscious hopes and dreams—all of them. Which is actually a really cool approach, if that’s what the author intended!
I get the sense it is what she intended. But not only our hopes and dreams, it also gets at our nightmares and fears.
The bedbug infestation! They were so isolated and trapped by that situation. Also, the astronaut and arctic explorer talk…more isolation.
Everything about this book rang true for me. The way she wrote about falling in love and the way that love can change—in good ways and bad—when you have a child.
“And that phrase— ‘sleeping like a baby.’ Some blonde said it blithely on the subway the other day. I wanted to lie down next to her and scream for five hours in her ear.”
And the greatest truth of all, that having this wonderfulness in her life doesn’t make her a whole person.
“There is still so much crookedness in my heart. I had thought loving two people so much would straighten it.”
There is so much truth in this book that it’s almost painful. Reading about the unraveling of their marriage especially so. The inertia and boredom that bring about the husband’s affair is so typical that in another book it would almost be considered trite. Not in this author’s hands. Here, the wife’s agony leapt off of the page and made my throat close up.
Literary Disco discussed the novel not too long ago (if you don’t listen to the podcast, you should!) and Rider said he feels this is a book for writers or people who read a lot, but otherwise it just feels pretentious. Do you think that’s true?
Aww, hell no. No, not at all. Pretentious? I didn’t get that. It reads exactly the way my mind works. Maybe I’m pretentious? Although, there are a few reading quotes, so maybe she was just real good at working her audience? I am, after all, a big reader.
“Advice for wives circa 1896: The indiscriminate reading of novels is one of the most injurious habits to which a married woman can be subject. Besides the false views of human nature it will impart…it produces an indifference to the performance of domestic duties, and contempt for ordinary realities.”
Also, the Midwestern sensibility of the husband kept it the book from becoming pompous and overblown. Says the Midwesterner.
I’m so with you on it being how my mind works. I think when I first reviewed it I said something about how it was like a collection of all the things you think about when you’re lying in bed at night.
I don’t think it’s completely off the mark. She’s a writing professor, edits manuscripts…there is a fair bit of esoterica for such a tiny book. I like nerdy stuff and did not feel I was being talked down to. She was still accessible and yes, I totally agree on the internal dialogue aspect!
“Some women make it look so easy, the way they cast ambition off like an expensive coat that no longer fits.”
I’m a fan of it, too, and find myself attracted to different formats, especially if the author plays with writing, but I wonder if that’s the reason some people hated it…there’s not a traditional plot. It seems like a very polarizing little book.
I enjoyed the format, but I felt “meh” about the book overall. I didn’t find it pretentious. It’s just that a big part of me kept thinking, “This is so surreal and…yeah, Murakami does this style better.” So I guess the execution fell flat for me.
Maybe we need to pick a Murakami so I’ll finally read him!
Yes! I’m holding you to this.
Read Our Reviews:
A Lovely Bookshelf | The Gilmore Guide | River City Reading | The Steadfast Reader
So, how did you feel about Dept. of Speculation, readers? Do you love the surreal style or long for a more linear plot? Is it easier to relate to”the wife” than a more clearly defined character?
April 29, 2015 at 12:23 am
OH MY GOD I had such good timing with reading this book haha. I listened to the Literary Disco episode before reading the book, so I expected a lot of New York art gallery pretentious nonsense. But honestly, I got none of that! I agree with those who said it was like reading my own thoughts a lot of the time. It was just so honest and on point. Often funny, often sad.
I also loved the main character. She was obviously flawed. But being in her head was such a good time for me. Her sadness felt so real, because it was often paired with sweetness and cleverness. She was multifaceted and was thinking about a lot of different things at once. And I totally buy the ending, because she is such a sad and flawed character. No way would she up and leave. That’s just not her. I don’t know. that’s my take at least. I really really loved this book. Granted, I am a sucker for stream of consciousness and experimental formats, but I think everything else was done well too.
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April 29, 2015 at 8:10 am
I want to comment on the ending, but I can’t remember it!
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April 29, 2015 at 11:12 am
“It was like reading my own thoughts a lot of the time”
I agree with you (and Jennifer, who said, “It reads exactly the way my mind works”)!
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April 29, 2015 at 12:24 pm
I still don’t get why Literary Disco disliked it so much! It’s almost like Ryder was transferring his own concerns about being pretentious. I just saw it as her world and felt the way you did.
I think she stayed as well. It is a realistic book and that’s the realistic response. She had to work it out- even if he was a jackass for cheating.
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April 29, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Yes to all of this!! Rider just likes to be contrary haha.
And I feel like she just doesn’t know how to be happy. She didn’t know at the beginning, when she was trying to love people to fix herself. She didn’t know at the end. She thinks that being in this family is what she needs to be happy, so she’s going to try to keep that together.
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April 29, 2015 at 1:18 pm
Rider’s rants are possibly my favorite thing about Literary Disco, even though I don’t always agree with him. And I think you’re right about him transferring his own concerns about being pretentious, Catherine. I loved the stream of consciousness, and I thought it was really realistic.
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April 29, 2015 at 1:27 pm
I love all the Literary Disco love! I’m not sure if my favourite parts of that podcast are the rambles going on in the first half, or the book discussion in the second (probably the first half!)
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April 29, 2015 at 6:14 pm
It’s one of the only book podcasts I will listen to even if I have no interest in the title being discussed.
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April 29, 2015 at 12:26 am
I *just* finished this book during the readathon on the weekend. And I’ve been trying to figure out how I feel about it ever since. I think I mostly feel how Monika feels. I had a really hard time caring about any of the characters – even the daughter. I felt very distanced from them, and if I were to have an emotional reaction it would have been more negative than sympathetic. On top of which, if you strip away the writing and just look at the plot, I found it kind of boring. That said, the writing itself saved it and elevated the book at least two stars for me. I enjoyed how experimental it was, and I liked how the author tied in so many details and metaphors to create a multi-layered style.
I’m glad I read this book, and I definitely see why it’s gotten so much attention. But I don’t think I’ll be reading it again – once was enough!
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April 29, 2015 at 8:10 am
I think you’re getting at a few important questions here. With books like this, kind of centered on vignettes, are we meant to focus on an overarching plot? I almost saw a plot in each paragraph or small stream of paragraphs and didn’t mind the lack of forward movement, which really didn’t seem to propel itself until the end.
And that’s not to say anyone is wrong for not liking a book that lacks a plot, which is the other thing you hit on. Books like this help us realize what type of reader we are – whether we read for things like plot, style or character. I know I’m definitely a style reader, so obviously this appeals to me, but it would probably feel lacking to a character or plot reader.
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April 29, 2015 at 1:22 pm
I think the lack of plot really works for this book. It’s written in a stream-of-consciousness style, about the inner experience of this woman — and life doesn’t have a plot. Things happen, and there are ups and downs, but in real life, there aren’t neat plot arcs.
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April 29, 2015 at 8:06 pm
Yes. This is exactly what I was going to add, so instead of repeating it, I’ll just agree with yours. 🙂 Reading it mirrored my own stream-of-consciousness and made me feel less of a crazy person. Even while typing this I have other thoughts interrupting. As far as style, I enjoy nonlinear as well as plot driven and think this couldn’t have been written any other way to express the feeling or purpose behind it.
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April 29, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Did you ever read Lydia Davis’ book called The End of the Story? It was about writing a story. No plot. Skipped all over. I really liked it. The style felt refreshing to me, as did Dept. of Speculation, which I loved.
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April 29, 2015 at 9:53 pm
I haven’t, but that sounds like something I’d love!
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April 29, 2015 at 8:09 am
I liked this book, but didn’t love it. I don’t think I like feeling so distant from the characters. I can see why people love it, though. A lot of what she said rang very true, and is what kept me reading the book. The one thing that has stuck with me the most after all this time is the quote about the door closing behind the husband as he leaves for the day, and the way it feels to be the one left behind to take care of the baby alone, all day, every day. I don’t have the book with me and can’t exactly remember how that quote goes, but I know that feeling so well (although, in my own life I mostly enjoyed my experience as a stay-at-home mom, it doesn’t mean that I didn’t sometimes feel that isolation when my husband left for the day).
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April 29, 2015 at 4:07 pm
I think that maybe it’s a book you remember connecting to (or in same cases, maybe *not* connecting to) more than you remember specific details.
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April 29, 2015 at 11:22 am
Great discussion! I read this one a few weeks ago and enjoyed it enough to recommend it to my husband, who also liked it. I use the word “enjoy” to describe how I felt about this book, but that doesn’t quite seem like the right term. Much of the novel isn’t enjoyable. It’s interesting and honest. I’m looking forward to reading it again and finding out whether different parts resonate with me the second time around.
Is it pretentious? Well, name dropping and quoting often comes across that way, but I don’t think Offill is doing that to impress people. It fits the character and mirrors the way many people think.
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April 29, 2015 at 12:20 pm
I thought the obscure references and all that was as you say, a part of the character, and it didn’t bother me. When compiled in such a small book with so many other oddities it did just seem as if it was her brain racing through all the minutia she was trying to process. Which we all do!
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April 30, 2015 at 7:14 am
I didn’t see the name dropping and quoting as pretentious either. I thought the swirls of additional information were meant to be pieces she was editing kind of working their way into her thoughts. Maybe I’m way off 😉
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April 29, 2015 at 11:48 am
I wish I had re-read this for today’s discussion, so I could provide more cohesive thoughts. I read this novel in December . . . and now, less than 6 months later, I honestly can’t remember much about it! Although I recall feeling very absorbed by it (and plowed through it in one day), now I find I can’t conjure any specifics in my head about the characters, plot, or style! So, maybe that sums up my reaction to the book right there . . . no matter how absorbing it was at the time, it didn’t prove to be very memorable for me in the end.
For those who truly loved the novel, do you think you needed to read it a second time for it to make a lasting impact? Do you think this novel will stick with you a year from now?
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April 29, 2015 at 12:04 pm
I think this comes back to plot vs ideas again. The ideas left a lasting impression on me, along with the reading experience. When I read it a second time I remembered little things I had forgotten, but I think this is more a book about pieces (the little vignettes of emotions) than a linear story.
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April 29, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Exactly. I listened to this book on audio in March last year when it came out. I liked it well enough but remember nothing about it, aside from it being short, and sort of experimental prose. And that stream of mind writing, is hit or miss with me. This was fine, but something like Sheila Heti’s How Should a Person Be? I couldn’t even finish.
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April 29, 2015 at 1:08 pm
I agree with Monika on this one. I was just never tacky drawn into this book. Like Shannon said, it probably has to do with the type of reader I am. Having heard so many rave reviews though, I’m glad to have finally found a couple of people who didn’t necessarily love it either.
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April 29, 2015 at 4:49 pm
I’m hiding my eyes and not reading anything on this post. Why? Because I just got my copy o Dept. of Speculation, darn it, and haven’t had a chance to read it, yet. I had hoped to have it and read it by the time this discussion came about. 😦 BUT, I’ll be back…sometime in the future. 😀
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April 29, 2015 at 4:59 pm
The good news is it’s a quick read!
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April 29, 2015 at 5:04 pm
Oh, good! Thanks!
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April 29, 2015 at 8:34 pm
I am glad that I was able to devote a big block of time to this book. So in some ways this was a Perfect Storm (in a good way) read for me – I had ALL day, it’s short and it is was the best style/format I needed on that day. I loved this.
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May 6, 2015 at 8:05 am
I’m totally with you on that. I think both times I read it I ended up in the same situation and there’s really not a better way to read it!
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May 5, 2015 at 3:08 pm
One of the things I loved most about this book was the fact that it lacks a linear story; I was so drawn in to the thoughts of “the wife” and it definitely brought out a lot of my own personal reactions to her descriptions of life. I kept thinking, “aaaaaaand this is why I don’t have children.” No offense to anyone with kids; it’s just not for me!! Readers talk about flawed characters; I am definitely a flawed character, which is why I probably connect so well to those in the books I read. I’ve only read this once, during Readathon, and I couldn’t put it down; I definitely want to go back and read it again, if for no other reason than to enjoy that voice one more time.
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May 6, 2015 at 8:06 am
I thought the same thing about having kids, so you’re not alone! For some reason, though, I do find that I can connect with books like this in a strange way. Like you said, there’s something that draws me in…maybe it’s being able to see a life that’s so different from my own.
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May 6, 2015 at 9:15 am
Yes! I completely agree, Shannon! I feel like I’m getting a glimpse into a different world which is, certainly, one of the reasons I love reading so much. I imagine it as if I’ve peeking into someone’s home, without them knowing; definitely a voyeuristic element involved…yikes! 🙂
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