.
This wasn’t the best book in the world. The writing wasn’t particularly crisp, some of the characters were one trick ponies, and the plot was all over the place. But the ideas it presented were thought provoking and kept me coming back for more. The pointed discussion of weight and about what that means as far as our fuckability/worth as women was uncomfortable and honest.
Alright, I’ve waited long enough, but have to interject now or I will burst: Holy plot overload. Either write a book about a young woman struggling with a lifetime of weight issues or about how the objectification of women is destroying women. Not both. In one novel. So, I’ll go one further—not only not the best book but not even good. I’ll go with OK.
They’re separate plots, but cause and effect concepts. We have a ton of novels about women struggling with weight issues and books about the objectification of women, but we so rarely let those ideas come together. Dietland isn’t perfect, but I love that Sarai Walker wasn’t afraid to make the connection she did.
Everyone makes good points here. On one hand I agree with Catherine, there was a lot going on in this book. On the other hand, I agree with Shannon, where it’s so rare that an author puts these two subjects together. I too liked that she didn’t shy away from the connections that she made (because they are connected), I just, like Jennifer, wish that the writer had been a little bit crisper.
I fell in love with Plum from page one, but it seemed like some of the secondary characters felt a little undefined, almost to the point that it was difficult to distinguish between them, which was odd considering they had pretty vibrant backgrounds or personalities.
I thought this was a fun read, and I definitely liked how weight issues and the objectification of women came together. And this may sound weird, but the secondary characters not being completely fleshed out totally worked for me. They didn’t feel as much like actual characters, but more like personifications of various attitudes women face, or caricatures of different types of people women have to deal with (or even become themselves). I thought this heightened the satirical nature of the novel in a really cool way.
Again, I fall somewhere in the middle. I certainly adored Plum, but I agree with Monika that the secondary characters weren’t really supposed to be characters. I love the phrase “personifications of various attitudes women face.” I’d even go so far as to say that they are also personifications of various faces women put on, either for themselves or for society.
I want someone to actually write Fuckability Theory and I want to make my own Penis Blacklist.
Well, at least there’s this!
This was one of the problems for me. Yes, I get the fuckability premise but I do not believe that the majority of women care about their weight or their looks to be fuckable. There are plenty of hot, young women out there who are hot because they want to be. Not because anyone else tells them they have to be. And I write that fully believing in the pervasiveness of the objectification of women in our society. That is real, but does every woman buy into it? And if they do, is it because of a man? Or just to look a way they think they should? Maybe it comes down to the word “fuckable.” It’s more aggressive than I would use. I think we all want to fit in and be liked—and weight plays a part in that.
Interesting. I read the fuckability theory in the opposite way, that women who fall outside the societal norm looks-wise are struggling to be “fuckable” and if not fuckable, then just accepted by society. They do so by incessant dieting, lap-bands, anorexia, plastic surgery, etc. I didn’t find the book so concerned with women who already are hot being hot because they want to be—but the opposite. I don’t know if that makes any sense.
I think it takes a ton of self-awareness and confidence to own your body and appearance, to completely ignore societal norms and look the way you want to. I absolutely don’t agree that most American women are at that point, I just think many of us aren’t aware of it. I’m married—I don’t get dressed up to go out to dinner with my girlfriends with the goal of looking “fuckable,” but if you think about the clothing I choose and the makeup I’m wearing and the style of my hair, those things are dictated by societal norms that align with acceptable beauty. We tend to balk at self-acceptance that doesn’t fit within these norms—you can see it clearly in the comments for almost any interview Sarai Walker has done for Dietland.
I don’t think the majority are either, Shannon, and I’m not saying ignoring societal norms. I just don’t think they do it to be “fuckable.” That aside, the most cogent and touching part of the novel to me was Plum’s realization that:
“Because I’m fat, I know how horrible everyone is. If I looked like a normal woman, if I looked like you, then I’d never know how cruel and shallow people are. I see a different side of humanity.”
Plum’s feeling of waiting for her life to begin is one I was surprised to understand so well. I’ve bounced between 5 and maybe 30 pounds from what I’d “ideally” like to weigh, but I feel like I’ve been on a diet my entire life…like a cycle that will never, ever end.
On the surface, it’s a recognizable story of self-acceptance (though the idea of fat acceptance is one many people still struggle with…if you really want to hate the world, just do a Twitter search for HAES—Healthy at Every Size—and read some of the negative reactions), but there is some radical stuff here and that’s what I loved about it. The thought of misogyny being a form of terrorism? I actually cheered out loud when I read that.
“I think it’s a response to terrorism. From the time we’re little girls, we’re taught to fear the bad man who might get us. We’re terrified of being raped, abused, even killed by the bad man, but the problem is, you can’t tell the good ones from the bad ones, so you have to be wary of them all. We’re told not to go out by ourselves late at night, not to dress a certain way, not to talk to male strangers, not to lead men on. We take self-defense classes, keep our doors locked, carry pepper spray and rape whistles. The fear of men is ingrained in us from girlhood. Isn’t that a form of terrorism?”
I loved that quote too. It’s so apt, so concise on so many of the problems that feminism is trying to fight.
This is the second book I’ve read recently that discourages against taking antidepressants. Don’t you think this might perpetuate the stigma against mental illness? It annoys me. Hmph.
That was the one thing that really bothered me about this book. I felt like depression was only portrayed as able to be explained by an “external reason.” The fact that it can be biological was ignored. I didn’t get that sense about Plum’s depression, specifically; it just felt like a sweeping generalization overall.
YES. This was my biggest problem with the book as well. As far as attitudes that I could back and social norms that need changing I felt like Walker did everything else right—but I just can’t condone the broad brush she uses about antidepressants or depression itself.
I didn’t really notice this when I was reading for some reason, maybe because I felt like Plum had been so manipulated her whole life that I fell into the trap of wanting her to be free of “the doctors”, but you’re definitely right. That’s not true for all people, and it’s possible it wasn’t even true for Plum. It would have been nice to see a little more balance there.
I thought it was pretty heavy-handed. Granted I don’t have experience with every antidepressant out there, but that Plum was still struggling with very strong adverse reactions over a month after tapering her dose? That didn’t seem realistic to me.
Maybe that goes back to Shannon’s feeling about Walker’s portrayal of “the doctors” pushing what’s “best” (read: acceptable to) society, rather than what was best for Plum?
Was anyone else in love with the obsession that Walker portrayed Plum having with the Baptist Weight Loss program and its eventual fall from grace (pun totally intended) she subsequently experiences with it? Is the connection with the church ripe with symbolism or am I just an atheist with a grudge?
I definitely picked up on that symbolism and loved the points it suggested. There are Christian subcultures which definitely contribute to unhealthy body image issues. But hey, atheist with a grudge, I’m a progressive Christian with a grudge, nice to meet you. 😉
I thought the concept of Jennifer was introduced really well though the news clips, but I almost wished it played more of a role, particularly toward the end. I think I was expecting something “bigger” to happen, though this really was a story about Plum.
I’d be willing to guess that had the Jennifer concept been better fleshed out, or something more had happened (maybe involving Plum) that the two concepts wouldn’t have felt so disjointed together.
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So, dear readers, were there too many scattered themes in this book, or were there enough connections for it feel cohesive? What themes struck you the most? Any thoughts on the Jennifer concept? Is misogyny a form of terrorism? Who would you add to a “Penis Blacklist”?
July 23, 2015 at 12:37 am
Even though I really enjoyed the book in part I do really agree with Catherine’s first point – so much going on! At times I did want this to be 2 different books – one about Plum and one about Jennifer. It was so much to go back and forth between. Now I have to keep reading your discussion so I can comment more!
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July 23, 2015 at 5:07 pm
Maybe she’ll write a Jennifer-focused sequel! 🙂
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July 23, 2015 at 10:42 am
Fantastic discussion! The premise of this book sounds hilarious. A bunch of overweight chicks building a “Fight Club?” What’s not to love? 🙂 I also thought Monika had an interesting point about one-dimensional characters working well in a satire. I may give this book a try. Oh, and Jennifer … I definitely what to read your Fuckability Theory/Penis Blacklist. As soon as you put that out there, it goes straight to the top of my reading list. 🙂
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July 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm
I agree that the book felt like it was trying to do too much, and using Plum’s fascination with the intern felt like a weak connection between the two sides of the story. Like April, I wanted something more… but, weird as it sounds, having no connection at all might have also worked for me. If the “Jennifer” stuff was just sort of interludes between parts of Plum’s story, as it started out, and never really resolved but just always THERE, I think that could have worked in a different way.
Also, LOVED the comment about misogyny as a form of terrorism. It sounds like such an exaggeration, but is it really?
Also, I agree with Catherine that wanting to be fuckable and wanting to be accepted are two very different things, and that – for the most part – women do the things we do when it comes to our appearance because we want to. (That said, I’m only one woman, and I haven’t been single since I was 17, so I’m hardly an authority on “most women” or “fuckability.”) But, even if that is the case, do we want to because we want to, or because society wants us to? It all ties together. Even if I’m not trying to be fuckable, how much of my own opinion on how I want to look/dress/accessorize/etc in any given situation is influenced by what started out as a man’s opinion?
Example: I recently cut and colored my hair pretty drastically. The cut is something I’ve been wanting to do for a while, and the color was a more recent decision to make the whole thing more fun, more of a makeover. Call it a premature mid-life crisis.
Anyway… I didn’t tell my husband ahead of time what I was planning, because I thought it would be more fun to see his reaction. But as I was sitting in the chair and then on my way home, I started getting nervous. What if he doesn’t like it? Obviously the important thing is that I like it – which I do – but I still don’t want him to hate it. And then I started thinking about my choice to get it colored, and did I really do that part of it because I wanted to, or did I subconsciously think that going red (which I know he likes) might soften the blow in case he wasn’t a fan of the shorter hair?
I know I’m WAY overthinking here, and this second-guessing isn’t because I regret my mini-makeover. But how much of this sort of thing goes on without our realizing it? And, as long as we’re happy and confident in our appearance, then does any of that other stuff even matter?
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July 23, 2015 at 3:13 pm
“Even if I’m not trying to be fuckable, how much of my own opinion on how I want to look/dress/accessorize/etc in any given situation is influenced by what started out as a man’s opinion?”
I was out of town when we cleaned this post up, so I didn’t reply to everything, but this is exactly what I was getting at. Those societal norms are almost always based on male enjoyment…so even if a woman tries to look nice because she wants to, the WAY she looks nice is usually rooted in what appeals to a man, not what’s always best for her. The term “fuckable” in Dietland doesn’t necessarily mean you’re out looking for a man, it just means you’re losing yourself to the patriarchy (even if you don’t realize it).
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July 23, 2015 at 5:44 pm
So by that logic… can we ever truly make a choice that isn’t somehow dictated by the patriarchy? Either we go along with those norms or we reject them (or some combination), but does their very existence mean that we aren’t really deciding for ourselves what we like or don’t like? I don’t know. It seems sort of futile to look at it that way.
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July 23, 2015 at 5:58 pm
I think it’s hard for most of us to make like/dislike decisions (on things far outside our appearance, even) totally on our own simply because we’re so connected…our opinions are constantly being influenced by other people. I don’t think that means EVERYTHING is dictated by the patriarchy, but I do think it plays a huge role in the way women “should” look.
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July 23, 2015 at 4:23 pm
I didn’t get married until I was 39 so my experience is the opposite of yours but when I think of my choices about my appearance I stand by a need for acceptance but not largely from men. At times, it was men and at many other it was the girls/women around me. And I have plenty of lifelong insecurities about my looks but I’m hard pressed to blame all of them on the patriarchy. Shannon and I will have to agree to disagree about that. For me, there’s much more to be said about being taught to love yourself. Not all of us get that or see it when we’re young.
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July 24, 2015 at 4:00 pm
April (atheist with a grudge), we really should get to know each other well! 😉 LOL You did make me laugh out loud!! Your comment sounded just like something I would say, in fact, I have noted similar symbolism in other books and other readers don’t seem to pick up on it often. Haven’t read this one and probably won’t. Not that the rousing discussion didn’t intrigue me, but I have so many other books that interest me more. I do agree with Shannon in comments below–I feel all our decisions are influenced by societal expectations, it is just a matter of degree. I am almost 60 years old and still working outside the home full-time and I just quit wearing make-up about 8-10 years ago and I refuse to “diet” or starve to maintain a certain number on the scale, and I choose for myself–clothes, food, etc. Others can think what they will of me, I just don’t give a shit any more. I have been there, done that, and have the T-shirt…that’s enough for me. 🙂
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July 26, 2015 at 10:22 am
Love this convo! I really loved this book, even though it’s not a perfect novel. For me, it was all about Plum – I think she was a well developed, kick-ass character you can’t help but adore and root for. I agree with Monika that I didn’t really need the secondary characters to be fleshed out fully. It sort of felt like a comic book or Marvel movie – the real story is the hero, and everyone else is just there to play a role and help the hero on their journey. (Also – how incredible of a movie could this be, if done right?) Maybe it also helps to think of it in terms of Sarai Walker’s inspiration – Alice in Wonderland. It has similar elements regarding secondary characters and a LOT going on with the plot. I think it’s interesting to view the novel from that perspective & inspiration. Maybe if the book had been a bit longer the two storylines could have worked together a bit better, and a bit less rushed.
RE depression medication, I didn’t notice that the first time though, but I can see where the concerns are coming from. I guess I took it as understanding that depression/anxiety/grief can all come from a variety of sources – some are external (as it might be in Plum’s case) and some are internal and much more difficult to explain or understand – chemical, biological or deep-rooted factors. I think I reacted to that part as her mentors recommending seeing how she does without them now that her world view was starting to change – testing to see if it was more external than internal. It was a sort of therapy program she was going though, and both can be used effectively. But now looking back I can definitely see the concerns others have voiced about it perpetuating a stigma against medical treatment that’s often very effective – it was sort of cast off and dismissed in the book as being bad.
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July 26, 2015 at 2:09 pm
I love your comparison to a comic book/Marvel movie! That’s spot on with how it felt to me, I just couldn’t pinpoint how to describe it. Love that!
Also, I didn’t realize Alice in Wonderland was Walker’s inspiration. Too cool.
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